Australian Broker forum is the place for positive industry interaction and welcomes your professional and informed opinion.

Uneducated brokers not taken seriously

Notify me of new replies via email
Australian Broker | 20 Apr 2012, 06:00 AM Agree 0
A trainer has claimed accountants, financial planners and real estate agents do not take brokers seriously as referral partners due to a lack of industry education
  • Ray C | 20 Apr 2012, 09:50 AM Agree 0
    Accountants, Financial planners & Real Estate Agents - A trainer draws a real life conclusion? Get into the real world and stop peddling your wares.
  • brokerboy | 20 Apr 2012, 09:51 AM Agree 0
    well a trainer would say that!
  • Dean | 20 Apr 2012, 09:51 AM Agree 0
    baha....minimum level of education for real estate agents is grade 4
  • Old Country Broker | 20 Apr 2012, 09:53 AM Agree 0
    So if these real estate agents, Acct's & Financial Planners aren't referring to brokers because of education standards, who are they referring to - the banks?? I'm certainly not against higher education standards required for the industry, but I also think it should be applied across the whole industry, including the glorified tellers & call centre staff who are employed by the banks in these roles. The knowledge, experience & qualifications they hold (in general) are nowhere near what we currently have.
  • Jon Colley - Loan Wize | 20 Apr 2012, 09:53 AM Agree 0
    I am not really sure why brokers are questioning the need to have a Diploma? Nobody is doubting your ability to do your job, they are raising the bar of professionalism and also creating further barriers to entry for new inexperienced brokers to compete with you (which makes your unique skills more valuable). If you know what you are doing and have been doing it well for many years then the Diploma is a walk in the park. If you don't, then the Diploma is a great way to improve your skill level! Why wouldn't you think this is a great idea, my team have had their for over two years.
  • Peter | 20 Apr 2012, 09:55 AM Agree 0
    What a load of BS. How appropriate that a trainer is saying this. Conflict of interest here? How on earth would Accountants and Financial Planners know that brokers are not educated? I have done a Bachelor degree as well as a Post Grad Diploma degree. I consider myself well educated and I find this article extremely offensive.

    The way I see it, the NCCP and now trainers claiming that 'uneducated' brokers are not being taken seriously are just manipulative coercion to force brokers to spend large amounts of money on training courses.

    I don't have time to waste on more courses. I'm educated, I'm busy and I don't have time or money to waste on greedy money hungry organisations.
  • Craig Parker - CAP Finance Solutions | 20 Apr 2012, 09:58 AM Agree 0
    I have completed CPA qualifications and have an MBA. I do not see the need to also complete a Diploma.

    Sometimes accountants and financial planners see these qualifications as a threat to their business and do not refer for fear of losing their customers or receiving contradictory advice.
  • Dean | 20 Apr 2012, 09:58 AM Agree 0
    "not taken seriously"...And neither are training organisations with a vested interest.
  • Paul Hautaniemi | 20 Apr 2012, 09:59 AM Agree 0
    With more than 20 years in finance I have never once been asked if I have a Diploma. I got mine a couple of years ago now as I could see this was the direction the industry was going, but it has added nothing to me personally. I can see a need for new to the industry people, but many of us had previous banking history prior to entering brokering, so really shouldn't be a necessity for people with real lending experience.
  • Judy West | 20 Apr 2012, 10:04 AM Agree 0
    Not my experience at all. Real Estate Agents are more likely to take brokers seriously as they have the runs on the board, AND are mostly available weekends - unlike many bank lenders who invariably work nine to five.
  • Bretto | 20 Apr 2012, 10:06 AM Agree 0
    Yes well as the MFAA's preferred and most expensive training partner he would say that wouldn't he!!! The issue is not education, its the fact that brokers do not have a professional association and also our bank service levels are non existent. Real Estate agents get more client service from Bank managers direct.
  • Lorenzo | 20 Apr 2012, 10:19 AM Agree 0
    Asking a trainer if you need more education is like asking a barber is you need a haircut.
  • Terry | 20 Apr 2012, 10:24 AM Agree 0
    well sais Ray. to add to that its also laughable comments coming from real estate agents who only have to do a tafe course and have absolutely no idea of the complexities of lending. financial planners only hold diplomas and accountants are only glorified book keepers.
  • DB Vic broker | 20 Apr 2012, 10:36 AM Agree 0
    Phil Naylor wants to help new brokers enter this industry, yet we increase the barriers of entry! Contradiction. I have been a broker for 14 years, I hold a real estate agents rep for about as long, and yet where has this got me. The MFAA have teamed up with training organization to satisfy there own agenda. I guess that makes sense given ASIC inclusion in the industry essentially dissolved any real purpose the MFAA had to start with. Seriously, a diploma may increase the post anomolly next to my name on my business card as it would with most of my colleagues however it still does not remove rogue brokers from the industry, nor does it force the banks to up skill their staff! Has any broker had a customer come to them advising their bank has complete an assessment and recommended another lender as a result?
  • Steve McClure | 20 Apr 2012, 10:38 AM Agree 0
    Funny he mentions standards. Have you examined the qualifications and experience of the trainers that are doing the training these days? Some (maybe many) have less experience than most brokers. Sometimes, the lecturer doing the MFAA preferred course (for example) is the same person who lectures on the non-preferred course. Associations setting education requirements need to examine these issues more closely.
  • Damien | 20 Apr 2012, 11:00 AM Agree 0
    What dribble
  • Tony | 20 Apr 2012, 11:00 AM Agree 0
    I really don't see any need here to bag Real Estate Agents, Financial Planner and Accountants. The ones I deal with are very professional. It is only heresay that these groups have actually said anything about brokers.

    I am sure there are Brokers in the industry who cannot do anymore than a PAYG Vanilla Deal, and some of these brokers may have a number of years of experience.

    Could this story be a beat up by someone who is trying promote his business. I would think that may be the case.

    I don't belive that Brokers as a whole don't want to upskill. I believe the main issue is the timing. Even our industries leader of the MFAA came out with a press release a few days ago stating that the MFAA have requested that ASIC slow down on the implementation of new policy so brokers can get their minds around all the changes so far. Not his exact words but that was the gist of his release.

    Whilst sayinf this, the MFAA is still pushing the 30th June Deadline for the diploma. When is it that the MFAA is actually going to support brokers, and work with us.

    He is a question for Phil - is the MFAA a respresentative Body for Brokers, or just an association who wants to wield a big stick, and feather your own nest.

    I will wait patiently for a reply.
  • Tony | 20 Apr 2012, 11:06 AM Agree 0
    Good comment Steve. I remember back to when we had to complete the Cert 4. We were going through the answers with the trainer. One question, everyone in the room had the wrong answer, and we all knew that we had the correct answer, but the "training notes" said we had the wrong answer. The trainer knew so little that he couldn't even argue the point, just said "the book says the answer is this, so that's it, you all have it wrong".

    HOw does that help our professionalism?????
  • Peter | 20 Apr 2012, 11:08 AM Agree 0
    I was told by a trainer from AAMC Training Group that MFAA has a vested interest in training programs. They get a cut of the monies earned from the courses we brokers do. Isn't this interesting???

    MFAA made it mandatory to complete your Diploma. FBAA does not need this requirement. Ever since MFAA enforced this requirement, FBAA memberships have sky rocketed. Isn't this interesting?

    MFAA, you have put one nail in your coffin. There's more nails to come.
  • Paul Eldridge - CEO Intellitrain | 20 Apr 2012, 11:13 AM Agree 0
    I have to agree with Ray. Real Estate Agents only need to do 3 - 6
    subjects of a Cert IV, i.e. not even a full qualification to begin
    selling real estate. So I can hardly see how real estate agents would
    be basing their referral decisions on qualifications.

    In our interviews with agents, their primary concern about whether to
    refer to a broker or not was reliability, consistently providing
    information to the agent and being able to look after the client.

    Gaining the Diploma should only be based on a decision of what will I
    learn from it? What value will it bring to me and my business.

    One of the points I think that may not have been raised is that not all
    training providers are the same - they don't actually have the same
    course content or assessments. RTOs can choose different electives. For
    example, where some RTOs have chosen OH&S, we chose Consumer Credit as
    we thought that this was more valuable to brokers.

    If you want to see whether or not the Intellitrain Diploma is worthwhile
    doing, then I am happy to give you an overview of what our course
    contains. We also provide a money back guarantee - that is, if you
    don't learn something from our Diploma upgrade then we will refund you,
    your enrolment fee.

    If, like some of you have mentioned, you already have higher
    qualifications than a Diploma, then it is highly likely that the
    qualification wont add any value to your knowledge. Therefore, you are
    better off applying for RPL (recognition of prior learning).
  • Peter | 20 Apr 2012, 11:23 AM Agree 0
    Brokers should eventually have degree qualifications not Diploma.
  • Country Broker | 20 Apr 2012, 11:31 AM Agree 0
    This article appears to be self serving and promotingIi must agree with Steve McCLures comment in regards to education standards and experience of trainers in doing my last diploma , to have the trainers deferring to us about certain types of commercial loans was embarrising for her & us.The Real Estate agents, financial planners, and accountants I services and receive referrals from are generally happy to deal with me , why, not because I have 3 diplomas and over 35 years experience, it is because I give good service and keep the referrer informed , I also get the job done. If I do not believe it is a deal , I let everyone know early . If it is a deal I let the referrer know how the deal is and what the time frames are , in other words I provide service,that is why I get repeat referrals.
  • Roberta | 20 Apr 2012, 12:01 PM Agree 0
    I read the article and most of the comments from other brokers and don't understand what the fuss is all about. Yes, like most of you, I have a Cert 4 hanging on the wall and a Diploma as well. I am a 'member' of the MFAA (no choice) and yet for the past 12+ years, not a single person has asked me about my "qualifications or education standards". The only thing I occasionally get asked is how long have I been doing finance broking. I should point out that I have never ever tried to source leads from Real Estate salespeople. They are so fickle and in most cases only refer what has been rejected everywhere else. They also have their hand out for referral money more often than not. I have never approached Financial Planners or Accountants either. I still and have for several years written around 130 to 160 loans a year. My referal base is and will always be my customers, who by the way I do not send Newsletters or Birthday Cards, calendars or such the like. So I go along with the education'stuff' because we 'have' to, but it won't change my way of business, but it does give me pretty certificates to hang on the wall. By the way,there hundreds of Brokers out there doing the same as me, just getting with caring for their clients when it counts most.
  • Peter | 20 Apr 2012, 12:05 PM Agree 0
    MFAA have realised that they are losing members to FBAA regarding the requirement to have a Diploma by 30 June 2012. That is why they have created a scare campaign through this article.
  • Tim | 20 Apr 2012, 01:02 PM Agree 0
    This whole should we have a diploma or should we not discussion is becoming quite tiresome. It is clear this training organisation is manipulating Australian Broker, the MFAA, some lenders and anyone else who cares to listen into recommending there course. Having thirty years experience in the industry, 15 working with lenders and 15 as a finance broker and working closely with accountants, real estate agents and financial planners during that time I have never been asked do I have a Diploma. I have been asked what experience I have, what services do I provide and how can I help their clients. New brokers to our industry should definitely have a basic understanding of lending but the best way to learn would be to initially work with a lender and then into broking often in a mentored role working with an experienced broker. If you asked all brokers out there what there path in this industry was you would get a vast majority state this was how their lending learning experience progressed.
    A broker friend of mine who recently did his diploma course told me the trainer often referred to him for advice and answers when asked questions by other attendees. To quote my friend " The trainer didn't have a clue".
    Finally have to wonder if Phil Naylor really is in touch with his members. If the posts in these type of forums is anything to go by there are many brokers not supporting his and the MFAAs push for a Diploma.
  • Tom | 20 Apr 2012, 06:36 PM Agree 0
    17 years as a broker and just completed Diploma along with the rest of my team. Was a good brush up for us all as we all can use ongoing training.

    I was an accountant for 7 years before I was a mortgage broker and the ongoing training I had to go through to keep up to date was huge in comparison.
    Don't see why this is such a big deal.
  • Peter | 23 Apr 2012, 10:58 AM Agree 0
    The problem is that Trainers and people in HR type are brainwashed into beleiving that only what they can tell you is worthwhile and without it ... well, you are uneducated. An example of this is the MFAA deciding that we all had to do a Diploma in "How to write a business plan and Commercial broking" in order to be a better broker. I have been writing and business plans since the 1980's and my business model does not include commercial work. So what was the point?In 17 yrs of broking, not one person has ever asked about my level of education! Referrals come from Real Estate, Accts, solicitors, clients and some financial planners. I am degree qualified and do not advertise that fact. I also have 3 or 4 Diplomas as well various Certificates. Stupid thougth processes lump everyone into the same categories and give no recognition that perhaps some of us can think for ourselves. Lowest common denominator treatment.
  • Todd | 23 Apr 2012, 11:37 AM Agree 0
    Real Estate License is a three day course, Dip Fin Planning is an 8 day course... real estate agents don't care about qualifications, they just want the deal done, this guy has absolutely no idea...
  • Loz | 23 Apr 2012, 03:13 PM Agree 0
    The pure truth is that the broker who offers the largest under the table referral fee, gets the referral relationship....nothing to do with education.

Post a reply