Fee for service broker argues for special rates

By Andrea Lavigne | 08 Jul 2009

Vanilla Loans managing director Geoff Brieger is trying to convince banks to give "the new third-party channel" or fee-for-service brokers special rates on products.

Brieger said he met with two banks last week to discuss options for brokers who refuse commissions.

"The purpose of my meeting was to explore the opportunity of creating a new third party channel for fee-for-service mortgage brokers where we could cooperate to a level of electronic lodgement and following through the loan application," he said.

"And a central point of negotiation was around prices - specially priced products for fee for service, because we know – and they openly acknowledge – that this would be the cheapest distribution channel for mortgages."

Brieger is proposing a new third party channel, which charges customers a fee, then walks borrowers into the branch to apply for the appropriate loan for their circumstances.

"We will be using software to identify the loans that fit for the customer and with authority to act on behalf of the customer we will be walking into branches and that's how we'll be doing our deals. I've already spoken to a couple of branches and they've said 'welcome'. And guess what - we don't have any service problems."

Several ideas were discussed at the meetings, but no commitments made by the banks, he said.

"The problem is they can not go out at a retail level at a price that is lower for mortgage brokers than for customers through the branch network. That's the sticky point," Brieger said.

The best suggestion, he said, was to create a different brand, or align products with a new online lodgement, direct to customer self-service type pricing.

"But that's probably two years away even if we decided we wanted to do it," he said.

Related stories:

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Commented by: Oz Boy at 08 Jul 2009 04:35 PM Report this comment
Good luck with that, they can't even run 3rd party and they have been in it for over 15 years there is no way they will give another party cheaper funding than they give to the public. Wall, head, now put both together repeatedly, oh you have already hence Vanilla Loans.
Commented by: bkr at 08 Jul 2009 09:22 PM Report this comment
Anyone else think that this guy might be a little full of hot air? A company that hasn't even launched yet or displayed any indication of volumes and already the majors are apparently falling over themselves to discount the rates available to major aggregators and branches.... hmmm
Commented by: James Santo at 08 Jul 2009 10:12 PM Report this comment
Hey Geoff do you think we are stupid. Go to a wholesaler and fund using their base rate. Then it is genuine rate reduction. You just want your full commission and the broker to get nil other than directly charged fees. This is a disgraceful and misleading path you are taking. Strip out your comms and pass on the rate to the clients. What you are doing is misleading bordering on fraud.
Commented by: Zoidberg at 09 Jul 2009 09:05 AM Report this comment
God I laughed. I don't think he thought it through...and I explain: The cost of a Bank generating a client / loan through the branch network is MORE expensive than through the broker channel. The Banks all know this as fact too. Simply walking the client into the bank for the bank to take care of the client is a cop out, and the Banks will and should tell him to go and get effed. The Branches however will gladly take this business as it costs them nothing, however they get the loan on their books. And who pays,the client. Effectively, he reduces the role of a broker to no more than a glorified software analyst come boy scout. What about all the other aspects that make up a good broker Geoff? The follow through, helping the client through a difficult time, negotiating on their behalf, calming them down when the banks don't make finance clause or settlement because their service is slow, taking OWNERSHIP of the client.... etc etc. I also would like to know how the brokerage is paid? If it is deducted at settlement what agreement do you have with the branch / bank? What does ASIC think of this? Does the MFAA/ FBAA have any Independent opinion on anything? (SLAP) Geoff, you are not helping our industry at this important time. We need solidarity within the broker channel and you ain't helping brother.
Commented by: MC at 09 Jul 2009 03:16 PM Report this comment
A bad idea, with a worse business model, at exactly the wrong time. Vanilla will turn to custard pretty soon, so stop giving him free publicity for these hairbrained schemes.
Commented by: Ian Jervis - Paradime Home Finance - NSW at 09 Jul 2009 03:23 PM Report this comment
I agree with James, if Geoff was really serious about his crusade to lower the rate for he customer, he can already broker loans through a mortgage manager, then provide them at delivery rates and achieve the same outcome. In fact given the improved service offering from non bank lenders, Geoff could offer the lowest rate and the best service. All he needs to do now is find an army of deaf dumb and stupid brokers to fulfill his dream.
Commented by: BBB at 09 Jul 2009 03:29 PM Report this comment
What a laugh , This bloke is suffering from some type of delusion , as if the banks would give him a discount on delivery rate without any proven volumes.
The milk in the Vanilla custard will go rancid soon , so will the business .

If you want to be precious go to a wholesaler charge no up front or trail and then sit back and wait for the costs to arrive as you manage the loans .

You are kidding , PLEASE NO MORE PUBLICITY FOR THIS BLOKE . My ribs are sore from laughing so much.

Commented by: AB at 09 Jul 2009 03:32 PM Report this comment
i agree with James and Ian - at the end of the day the only benefit of interest is Geoffs - grabbing his margin for being a "middle man only" and fees for using "his software"! dont think the "smart brokers" will go for this!
Commented by: Timbo2 at 09 Jul 2009 09:33 PM Report this comment
Walking the clients to a branch! Is he kidding? This implies that the broker and the client are stupid, and the client is doubly stupid for paying a fee. This is really bad, and makes brokers completely subservient to the banks. What about the non-banks who don't have branches, but have competitive products? Is he going to introduce the customer over the phone? Just ridiculous, and giving is all a bad name. Please go away....
Commented by: Geoff from Vanilla at 09 Jul 2009 10:48 PM Report this comment
Thanks for the hate mail!

To put the record straight, I actually met with 3 banks last week and all acknowledged that it is possible to deliver a cheaper price for brokers who refuse to accept commissions. However, it will be extremely challenging for banks to actually do so because the concept of pricing brokers cheaper than branches is not at a palatable idea.

This response was hardly surprising, but it was great to start the discussion and to hear the thoughts of bank leaders.

If a new channel should ever evolve, it would in fact be to avoid the need for brokers to walk into branches to negotiate cheaper deals for customers. This new channel would provide a central point of negotiation and enable co-operation from a loan submission and tracking point of view.

That said, I acknowledge that my proposed channel is but a dream today, so Vanilla will bypass the third-party channel completely and I’m happy about it – no aggregators, lower barriers to entry and better service (from what you tell me?).

It is also perfectly clear that Vanilla can control its own destiny, unlike you brokers who live by the rules of the banks and aggregators who pay and control you. I wish you luck also in competing with my true brokers who act only for customers and don’t need to put volume to certain lenders to keep accreditations.
Commented by: Oz Boy at 10 Jul 2009 09:36 AM Report this comment
Geoff don't go all sookie sookie la la on us. If your not getting your message across effectively then that would indicate a problem from your end. If you think a "true broker" as you put it is one who offers only 1 loan product...yours...then I think your definition of a broker and mine are very different. If I am a true broker then I would need to have more than one lender offering the loan type you are promoting because as soon as I put my fee into your loan amount at the rate you are delivering my current panel works out to be cheaper and some offer the same turnaround times with a proven business model which is a lot easier to sell to a customer than something new and unknown. You certainly have a mountain to climb and best of luck but don't get all sookie when others are sceptical.
Commented by: JB at 10 Jul 2009 03:27 PM Report this comment
Who are these clients who don't like paying commission? I have over 200 clients and everyone knows I get commissions they were advised up front. Not one has complained about commissions, Most said you have to be paid by some one.

plus the majority of my client would be paying less interest than Mr Venilla's 5.19%

Who started the push against commissions? I dont belive it was the client.
Commented by: Paul Gollan at 10 Jul 2009 06:28 PM Report this comment
This sounds remarkably similar to the old MORTGAGE REDUCTION schemes. You remember? Refinance your low variable rate mortgage + other debts into a Line of Credit at a rate 0.5-1% higher than your current mortgage, pay all your salary into the line of credit, live on a rice and potato budget and credit card and pay your mortgage off in 4 years....Oh and by the way the $3,000-$5,000 is a monitoring fee.

Did they ever pay their mortgage off quickly? Of course they didn’t. And if you talk to bank management and they are being honest they will tell you that 90% of the line of credits refi’s were still at the limits years later.

Ok the concept is different but the end result is the same...A smokes and mirrors justification for charging clients a fee who could otherwise secure the same product from a PROFESSIONAL MORTGAGE BROKER at no charge.

Thankfully the old mortgage reduction cowboys have been put out of business to a certain extent by ASIC, however given the banks ARE NOT going to provide their products at a lower price than they do through their 1st party channel, this concept is what it is. A Dead Duck.

If you look at all the reports and papers written about our industry over the years the overwhelming majority of complaints have been about “brokers” and I use the term “brokers” loosely who have charged outrageous fees to consumers. The majority of them have been these mortgage reduction types who given “brokers” a bad name.

Paul Gollan
AMB


Commented by: Response to Paul at 10 Jul 2009 07:19 PM Report this comment
The debr reduction guy shave no place in the market place what so ever. I ran across a group in SA in Modbury who employed these tactics. An utter disgrace.
Commented by: Xerxes at 28 Jul 2009 05:15 PM Report this comment
I gues you don't have a single broker accredited and referring you regular business Geoff.

Gee who would have guessed?

If you just had a crack at being a mortgage manager I'd say good luck. But the fact that you have shown open hostility towards brokers (jokers) from the get go makes me wonder what sort of bloke you really are.

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