Australian Broker forum is the place for positive industry interaction and welcomes your professional and informed opinion.

ING Direct delivers broker ultimatum

Notify me of new replies via email
Australian Broker | 19 Jul 2011, 06:00 AM Agree 0
ING Direct has warned that brokers could become irrelevant as a distribution channel for the lender if they continue to send the majority of loans to the big four
  • Ozboy | 19 Jul 2011, 10:44 AM Agree 0
    Ms Claes we would love to deal with ING more and more but find it so difficult. We have to put the application into a certain format to match your rules we just wish one of the rules was that your assessor's would read our notes. We can't email anything in it's all faxes, we can't speak to an assessor so it takes 4 days and 2 faxes to point them to the notes we sent in originally. I could go on, you have a great product range, good brand recognition and a compelling customer service offering but you simple way too hard to give business too and we get paid less. From a business owners perspective dealing with ING on loans under $200k is unprofitable. I would hope that this information is not new to you and all of these things are in your control, it's totally up to you to rectify this situation not us.
  • MelbBroker | 19 Jul 2011, 10:52 AM Agree 0
    I think some of these second tier lenders need to make the overall experience of lodging deals the same as the majors have perfected it.
    I lodged one deal with ING a few years back and it was like pulling teeth. I didnt track down that road again......
  • Rachael | 19 Jul 2011, 12:27 PM Agree 0
    Wow - bit out of touch ? Can't remember last time I saw or heard from my BDM, products are only 'ok', service is really not up to par (in fact one of the worst in my opinion...).
  • peter | 19 Jul 2011, 12:27 PM Agree 0
    going to the post office to be ID'd or to lodge stat decs for savings accounts doesnt help anyone.
  • Ray Cooper | 19 Jul 2011, 12:28 PM Agree 0
    If you do not meet ING's volumn levels brokers are banned for life. How many more loans would they have if they accepted loans from all accredited Mortgage Brokers?
  • Broker | 19 Jul 2011, 12:30 PM Agree 0
    I agree 100% with the above , they are painful to use
  • Canberra broker | 19 Jul 2011, 12:33 PM Agree 0
    Lift your commission and accept online and email applications and supporting documents. That will increase your market share. Simple.
  • Garry | 19 Jul 2011, 12:34 PM Agree 0
    The above comments are spot on when it come to dealing with ING. Yes they are a good lender and they have sound products. Until they fix up their end, make it easy to submit deals, allow us to deal with the decision makers, speed up their processes and fight on rates as the other lenders are doing their current position in the ranks wont change. If we are so important to the lender via the broker channel then they need to meet our requirements as well. Wake up ING its a tough new world out there, its time you worked a lot harder to get our business instead of giving veiled threats. There are plenty of lenders out there fighting to get deals - we wont really miss you if you fall away.It wont be our doing but yours.
  • SKEPTICAL | 19 Jul 2011, 12:40 PM Agree 0
    I love ING products and would much prefer to deal with ING for my clients BUT, the main issue is Postcodes and apartments, Places like West Perth and East Perth, 95% LVR's and Guarantor loans or Family Pledges. That's where the Big Four leave the others behind UNFORTUNATELY!
  • DB | 19 Jul 2011, 12:42 PM Agree 0
    You have to sit and wait for 4 days for something to happen everytime you send something back and that something could be sorted via a quick phone call or reading of the notes!! There is just 8 days gone and nothing has been assessed. You just cant afford from a time perspective to deal with them as you are not giving your clients the best outcome with stress from their end that they cant exchange yet. Service levels are not up to scratch thats for sure.
  • Prisco Minichiello | 19 Jul 2011, 12:55 PM Agree 0
    Have ING thought of one sure way to make brokers take notice of them and that is. Start getting the commission payments back to what it should be. Why not, some one has to start, then the real competition begins!
  • King Wally | 19 Jul 2011, 12:57 PM Agree 0
    Lisa is 100% correct on the devolution of the broker proposition, BUT, ING, needs to have an honest look in the mirror. Credit and Risk needs an urgent revamp, like a complete change of attitude and personnel. Harsh but essential.
  • Saint1966 | 19 Jul 2011, 01:07 PM Agree 0
    Everyone is hitting it on the head, ING is just so painful to deal with, loan tracking system virtually non existant, loan doc's read like a phone book and I too have never met my BDM, yet have lodged 3 deals in the last 4 months. Without brokers I think it will be ING who become irrelevant as a minor lender in Aust.
  • Nav Matta | 19 Jul 2011, 01:07 PM Agree 0
    All the comments by other readers are spot on ! ING has to lift their game, no doubt the products are good but the application process needs to be made more transparent and the broker should be able to speak to the assessor, a two minute conversation can save 2 days of sending and receiving faxes, I was dissappointed the most when they came up with reduced commissions (mirroring majors) with a complex slabs, etc
  • raydib | 19 Jul 2011, 01:25 PM Agree 0
    You are all correct. The experience in dealing with ING from a Broker's perspective in nothing short of extremely painful. They are not transparent nor are their credit people accessable. ING - survey your brokers then deliver what they need to make you a viable option.
  • Perth Broker | 19 Jul 2011, 01:44 PM Agree 0
    I could not agree more with the comments above. We don't need your childish threats Ms Claes we just need you to experience exactly what we as brokers experience when dealing with ING - it has all been documented above. I have never set eyes on my BDM in WA - have to wonder what they do all day.

    As for lodgin deals with ING this would be more painful than pulling teeth. The back office people seem to go out of their way to make things difficult.
  • Jim Beam | 19 Jul 2011, 01:50 PM Agree 0
    If ING had only kept Gadens NMS, I would have been writing more business with them & I find their lending criteria quite narrow otherwise the products are good.
    It’s not only about products, it’s also about the front end processing that counts it’s also the backend of the loan processing that matter to brokers.
    As a broker we (I) tend to look at ‘The road of least residence’ to keep our clients happy.

    Jim Beam
  • Chris | 19 Jul 2011, 02:01 PM Agree 0
    Yes, I agree that the Funder needs to supply a better service standard but I think everyone here is missing the point. The point is that until Brokers refer deals to Funders other than the 4 majors, Brokers are at risk of losing their business and/or jobs. The more we give to the majors, the more they control the market and us. They already dictate commissions and clawbacks to us. If they hold all the market, they will only continue to reduce or not pay commissions (no competition). By sending loans to other Funders, they will start to lose market share and maybe Brokers will get better commissions but more importantly, keep their business and/or their jobs. Time to look at the bigger picture here guys.
  • AdelaideBroker | 19 Jul 2011, 02:10 PM Agree 0
    Agree with you there Chris. CBA haven't been that competitive for some time now but keep getting a large chunk of the business. So the question is are brokers finding the "best deal" for their client or simply taking the path of least resistance to get the loan done? By some of the comments above the latter seems the case.
  • osbroker | 19 Jul 2011, 03:03 PM Agree 0
    Hear hear! Sorry Lisa, but other second tier lenders are getting business because they are not as difficult to deal with. I'm sorry if your staff haven't made you aware of ING's shortcomings in this area. Credit and technology are about 5 years out of date. Not being able to speak to a credit officer, especially when they do not read notes submitted, is ridiculous and time wasting. Not many clients have the patience to deal with you. Lift your game and you will be inundated.
  • kenbee | 19 Jul 2011, 03:08 PM Agree 0
    As a regular user of ING I have no issues with the service from the BDM's as it's very good.
    The above brokers do however make some valid points and ING at times can be quite archaic in it's approach to procedures and lending although I beleive some real changes for the better are in the wind!
    Having said all that franly I think Ms Claes makes a very valid arguement. There are a great number of very monocular brokers out there who can only see "their" bank - usually the one they used to work at and all their loans go there. Personally I would like to think that sort of blind adhearance to lending with just one or two majors is on the way out, and good riddance to those who do it!
    PS to all those brokers above who are of the opinion that they would use ING more if the Commission was higher, for Gods sake get out of this business for you are exactly the sort that don't belong in it. Go back to selling cars where the comm is much higher.
  • osbroker | 19 Jul 2011, 03:09 PM Agree 0
    The reason that brokers take the path of least resistance is that we are honest with our clients about the service we/they are likely to experience. None of my clients have elected to go with a lender that takes longer and is more demanding than another if the pricing is even close to comparable. It's not about the rate! Clients want to know that they will have good ongoing service, even if they have to pay a little more. (Same argument as fee-for-service, surely.) It's all about the value proposition.
  • plucka | 19 Jul 2011, 03:18 PM Agree 0
    All valid comments above, ING needs to relax their policies a little and streamline their submission and application process... and recently, I think ING's assessor are there to find a way to not a accept a deal rather than working with the broker to make the deal happen. Especially when all the check points on a checklist satisfies ING requirements, they come back and ask for more... Just put it on the checklist...
  • Diomedes | 19 Jul 2011, 03:27 PM Agree 0
    ING Direct:

    Work on your credit policy,
    Work on your work flow procedures,
    Work on your file allocation and responsibility,
    Work on your valuation procedures,
    Work on your post settlement variation requirements (really a paper application for a loan variation),
    Work on your supporting documentation requirements, is a ING bank labelled statutory declaration that much more legal tender over a ACT Government formatted statutory declaration?,
    Work on your supporting staff to value the broker channel,

    I could go on and on and on, oh and I have supported the smaller lenders in the past (prior to Dec 2008), but I have received little support from the smaller lenders to date.

  • Patrick | 19 Jul 2011, 04:48 PM Agree 0
    It costs more to replace a customer than to retain an existing customer. ING is currently offering 0.10% additional discount on its Smart Pack for the life of any Mortgage Simplifier loan. As an alternative, they could increase 2nd year trailer from 0.15% to 0.20% and 3rd year and subsequent trailer to former 0.25% ongoing. Banks bite the hand that feeds them and then threaten them with a fear and loathing campaign. Don't beat around the bush, don't talk about it, pay me, pay me now and watch the new business flow. Even without the 0.10% discount ING has good products competitively priced and I certainly would have no issue with disclosing the higher commission and justifying my recommendation.
  • PC | 19 Jul 2011, 05:01 PM Agree 0
    Take note of Chris' comments guys. Its the big picture that is important hear. ING are saying this on behalf of all smaller funders. If the support is not there they will look at alternatives and it wont include the broker.
  • johnny | 20 Jul 2011, 09:26 AM Agree 0
    When I first started Broking 2 years ago I thought ING would be my preferred Lender due to their great brand and products. I soon turned off them as they became too difficult to deal with. For example I had a client that was on holidays overseas and wanted a $10k top up to their Home Loan. ING would not accept regular PAYG credits to a/c as income verification even though the a/c was with ING. The client could not provide payslips as they were overseas so it was easier to move the loan to a major who do accept regular credits on Bank Statments as income verification.
  • Beaches Broker | 20 Jul 2011, 10:09 AM Agree 0
    I agree with the comments on archaic service from ING but their products are good so support them. Got a suggestion for all brokers. Why not cut and paste the article and comments and send it to your ING BDM. I have and would suggest you do too. I often wonder if they or people such as Lisa Claes actually read the forums so why not start making them aware of what we think. Her comments don't seem to indicate she has any idea what we think so isn't it about time we let them know. The MFAA or FBAA or the aggregators don't seem to be getting the message through either so let's be pro-active and do it. I for one do not want to see the ongoing domination of market share by the big four to the extent we currently have.
  • cameron | 20 Jul 2011, 10:32 AM Agree 0
    I hope all these valid comments are totally new to Ms. Claes and she has what it takes to implement them. We brokers are aware that market domination of big 4 is not good news for consumers and us. But are you making it easier for us to deal with you? I am one of the so called “banned for life” brokers. My crime was that after discussing a new deal with my then ING BDM, I lodged an application. And just four days before settlement was told the deal was declined. Full stop.No explanation. I had to bear the humiliation of calling my clients with the news. Fortunately CBA accepted the deal and settled on time. Then after a while I received an email from ING that because I was not supporting them my accreditation was cancelled. Since then I have tried a couple of time to re-accredit but each time I have been dealt with like a criminal, with no chance of redemption. Now after reading all these comments I feel I have not missed much.
    Have I?
  • ING DIRECT | 21 Jul 2011, 02:05 PM Agree 0
    As the Head of Broker Distribution at ING DIRECT I have followed the various discussions with interest.

    Although not all discussion has been complimentary of ING DIRECT we have certainly been buoyed by the passionate responses in which the message to us is clear. Brokers want to support us and understand the importance of the non-major lender presence in this channel however it is up to ING DIRECT to ensure our value proposition aligns to broker and customer expectations.

    My contact details follow:

    0411 659 382

    I would be happy to talk through your concerns and listen to your feedback and arrange for a member of our sales staff, be it State Manager and/or Business Development Manager to meet with you should you so wish.


    Mark Woolnough

Post a reply